Bernie Borges [00:00:00]:
Picture this. To experience the most fulfilling chapter of your life, you decide to sell nearly all your possessions first. My guest today had a beautifully renovated home, a thriving career, a clear picture of what success looks like, and then a loss that changed everything. Two losses, actually. A father in law at 50, a brother at 50. Also my guest today is Jessica Carroll, a seasoned executive in customer and employee engagement and the head of Strategic alliances at the Institute for Digital Transformation. Jessica and her husband made a deliberate choice to exit conventional life early, sell nearly everything, and spend years living as nomads across the world, three months at a time. So what does it look like to design a fulfilling life with intention? And what is living as a nomad teach you about the five pillars? That’s what we’re exploring today.
Bernie Borges [00:01:03]:
We’re going to discuss how major losses can become a catalyst for a radically different life. What it takes to sell your home, shed all your possessions, and then go. And how fitness found Jessica halfway around the world and why it changed everything. And finally, what living in Spain, Africa, Peru, Costa Rica, Italy, the uk, Thailand, and France reveals about fulfillment. Wow, that’s a lot to cover. Jessica, welcome so much to the Life Fulfilled podcast today.
Jessica Carroll [00:01:36]:
Well, Bernie, thank you so much. I’m so excited to have this conversation with you today. So thank you for having me.
Bernie Borges [00:01:49]:
Thank you for joining me. I am as well. Jessica, you are a seasoned executive. As I said in the introduction, customer and employee engagement. You’re also the new head of strategic alliances at the Institute for Digital Transformation. And, Jessica, you shared with me previously that you’ve been career driven since the age of six. I’m sure we’ll hear a little bit about that. But look, you and your husband made a deliberate choice to exit the conventional life early.
Bernie Borges [00:02:15]:
You sold nearly everything, and now you’re living as nomads all around the world, three months at a time. So in this conversation, let’s go beyond the career stuff, the travel stuff, but let’s get into what it really means to design the fulfilling life that you and your husband are living across the five life pillars in a nomad lifestyle. And I think where we should begin the conversation, Jessica, is I know you had not one, but two catalyst events that were really life changing for you. Why don’t we start there?
Jessica Carroll [00:02:46]:
Yeah, you know, it goes all the way back to college. When I met my husband, he and I were dating, and his father passed away at 50 suddenly. And it was really obviously jarring for my husband, future husband, and the family, but it, you know, it kind of sat in his mind and sort of stood there for many, many years. So we fast forward then to, oh, gosh, we must have been in our early 40s or so, and my brother passed away at 50. Suddenly, just no expectation that this was going to happen. Unfortunately, it did. And it. It really put the two events together for my husband and I and really had us think about, wow, what.
Jessica Carroll [00:03:34]:
What do we want to do with our life? You know, we’re. We were deep into our careers, very busy raising twin boys. You know, they were, I think, in middle school at the time. And, you know, you’re doing all the conventional, normal things that people do. And we were living a very happy life, but it just put some perspective on the fact that life is not guaranteed. And, you know, we say this as quips, but it really hit us, like, this is not something that we can be sure is going to last to tomorrow. So it. It certainly put our heads in the mindset of how do we really want to live our life? And obviously, we didn’t want to make big changes at that time.
Jessica Carroll [00:04:18]:
We were, like I said, we were raising our children and we had goals to meet, but we thought, you know what, we can restructure what the life of our future looks like, and we can think about approaching retirement in a different way. And why not retire early while we’re young enough to appreciate and enjoy it?
Bernie Borges [00:04:43]:
Okay, that is a very common thought. Jessica, as I’m sure you know, a lot of people think about retiring early, but what I know about you and your husband is that you’re not literally retired in that know, you wake up every day and go golfing or whatever retirement looks like for people who are fully, fully retired. But how did you actually, before we talk more about what you’re doing today, like, how did you do the planning? What did that look like? So you had these catalyst events in your life. How did you actually plan to go do what you and your husband are doing now?
Jessica Carroll [00:05:19]:
Right. So we, you know, we love travel. We’ve always traveled and, you know, love being around the world. And it was clear to us that we wanted a lifestyle where we could really immerse in the world in different places around the world and really become part of the culture. And to do that, we needed a plan. And as I shared with you when we first met, I’m a very structured plan person. I’ve got a goal, I know what it is, and I’m going to go execute to that goal. And that’s very much how I’ve always been and I still am today.
Jessica Carroll [00:05:59]:
So the idea of us leaving a conventional life, I was open to that and travel was the answer. But how to do that, that is the big question. And so for me, it had to be something that was planned. And it felt a little bit in the beginning to me, like, what a great idea, but how can we possibly do that? We’re not going to do that. And it, it sort of turned for me. One day I came home from work and my husband was sitting at the kitchen table with an Excel spreadsheet up. And we have to understand is he doesn’t, he doesn’t use that, that he’s Excel and all of that is not something that he would do. Spreadsheets are not it.
Jessica Carroll [00:06:38]:
Anyway, I love spreadsheets. And he won me over with his spreadsheet of our travel plan, all the countries we would go to, how long we would stay, and sort of how we would manage this for a five year period. And, you know, it really caught my attention. I’m like, what, maybe we could think about this, but how financially do you make something like that happen? And he tricked me by taking me to our financial advisor and our financial advisor and my husband kind of teamed up on me and the, the advisor said, yeah, you can do this. So I, I didn’t really have any other arguments, but to start to take it seriously. And then of course comes the true planning, right? We had to then sit down and really figure out how we could make this work at the right time in our life.
Bernie Borges [00:07:30]:
I have to say, I, I just have to say, Jessica, I want to give your, your husband some really great credit for appealing to what he knew would be the way to convince you, right? Your structured thinking, the numbers, a little bit of third party validation from a trusted advisor. He, he really brought it home. So kudos to him. So that, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. So, okay, so a little bit more then, because I’m sure someone listening is thinking, wow, maybe I could do the same thing. Or maybe, you know, know, my partner and I can do the same thing. So what did the next phase of the planning look like? You know, beyond the spreadsheet, the advisor saying, you could do this.
Bernie Borges [00:08:13]:
What, what, what happened next?
Jessica Carroll [00:08:15]:
Well, you have to remember at this time, I mean, we were in our early, early 40s or so, so this was a plan that was a 15, 20 year outlook. Right. So I think, you know, and I get this question a lot today. How do you do this? Well, you don’t just, you know, do it. This was a long term investment for us and it was carefully orchestrated. So the period of time where my husband and my advisor won me over with their little magic plan, it was a, again, goal oriented process to kind of hit, hit the place we needed to be. And at an early enough age where it both made sense for us to semi retire and travel and live this way. So it wasn’t an overnight, it was an overnight decision once they got me, but it was a long term plan.
Bernie Borges [00:09:15]:
Okay, now at what point did you and your husband say, okay, it’s time, let’s do this. Was that a specific, Was it a, a specific conversation where you can kind of remember the date and the time, maybe where you were, or was it more something that evolved over the years?
Jessica Carroll [00:09:35]:
Yeah, no, we had a age number that we had, had decided upon and it seems so far away, right? So it seemed like, oh my gosh, this is a dream plan and yes, we’re working towards it, but it’s down the road, but, you know, life creeps on and you get older. And that number was, was getting closer and closer. And the reality was, you know, yeah, we got to really think about, are we gonna launch this plan at the time we said. And, and we did, we did launch at the time we said. And it’s funny because my husband did ask me as we got closer, are you sure you’re okay with this? Because it was, you know, there is emotion in changing. I mean, this is a massive, massive change. But the decision had been made based on good reasons, strong reasons. And my feeling at that time was, yeah, I’m feeling a little torn right now.
Jessica Carroll [00:10:35]:
My emotions are kicking in, which is uncomfortable, but I have to stick with what my brain told me was the right thing to do. And, and so my answer to him was, yes, we’re going to do this. Whether I’m sad about it or not, we’re going to do it.
Bernie Borges [00:10:50]:
Okay, so a little context for my listener, Jessica. So, because sometimes I have listeners that are brand new just tuning in for the first time and others that have been listening for quite a while. I’m based in the US Specifically in Florida. You were in the US as well. Okay, so let’s talk a little bit about. You had to sell your home to make this happen, right? I mean, in order to start living in other countries. That was part of your plan was to sell your home?
Jessica Carroll [00:11:23]:
It was part of the plan. You know, it’s. And I know that might sound a little crazy. We owned our home outright at that point. So, you know, one would say, why in the world would you give all that away. But you’ve got to go back to the initial reason. Life is precious. It’s not guaranteed.
Jessica Carroll [00:11:42]:
If we wait, we might not have the opportunity to actually do it. So we went ahead and sold the home and are using that to finance us through this process.
Bernie Borges [00:11:55]:
Okay, so let’s talk a little bit about your nomad life. I think right now you are in France, is that right?
Jessica Carroll [00:12:06]:
I am in Paris, France, as we speak, living in the middle of the city. So, again, if there’s noise out there, fire trucks and such, don’t. Don’t be surprised.
Bernie Borges [00:12:15]:
Yeah. Well, in fact, I’ll mention, Jessica, that just before we started the recording, an ambulance went by, and it sounded like it was in your living room.
Jessica Carroll [00:12:24]:
Yes.
Bernie Borges [00:12:26]:
Okay, so how many countries, which countries have you been in and maybe share a little bit of, you know, what you’ve learned and. Or experienced there, however you want to characterize that?
Jessica Carroll [00:12:38]:
Yeah. So, you know, the. We had been traveling, so I have some familiarity with various countries around the world. So part of the idea was, well, let’s go back to places that we love. For instance, Barcelona was the first city we moved to, and we were there for two months, and then we spent a month in southern Spain. We love Spain. So that seemed like a nice, wonderful entree into this adventure. But we also are very conscious that, again, with this precious life that we have, let’s go see things we don’t know in places we haven’t been.
Jessica Carroll [00:13:16]:
So it’s a mix of both. As I said, three months in Spain, and then we went to Africa, which I had never been to, and we got a little stop in Marrakech in Morocco, and then we spent a month and a half down in South Africa and a couple of countries in that area. So we were bouncing around a little bit. Got a month in Cape Town, so got to really get the sense of that continent. And, my goodness, what a wonderful, amazing experience Africa was for us. So it certainly gave me some perspective on how small we are on this planet. Planet. It’s a vast and, in many, many ways, beautiful place.
Jessica Carroll [00:14:00]:
So that was step two. So those were the first two countries.
Bernie Borges [00:14:03]:
Okay, now you are doing this, as I understand it, Jessica, three months at a time. What does that mean? Does that mean you travel back to the US after three months?
Jessica Carroll [00:14:14]:
We do. You know, initially we were planning on being gone much longer, but at this point, we’re doing three months with. Usually works well in most countries for being a tourist, which is technically what we’re. We’re doing at this point. But the real kind of turn for, for me was my mother, who is 91, super independent, she’s quite an amazing lady and still driving. So she’s, she’s very, very active in the community and all of that. So she’s fine on her own. But it also seems to us that us coming back every three months to have a bit of time with her and to check in on her and help her out with things she might need is, is the right thing to do.
Jessica Carroll [00:15:02]:
So that’s why. So we go back to the United States about every three months and spend a little bit of time in my home state, which is New Jersey.
Bernie Borges [00:15:11]:
Okay. Now again, I, as I understand it, you are still active as an executive in business. So speak to that a little bit. What does that look like as you’re living your nomad lifestyle and in many cases, if I’m not mistaken, working with US Based operations. So there’s obviously a time difference there, et cetera, et cetera.
Jessica Carroll [00:15:36]:
Yeah, I stopped working full time in 2024. So we launched this adventure in 2024. Stopped working full time. So I’m not doing any full time work, which is for me helpful. I don’t, you know, it would be a real burden to do that right now, but I am, I have been consulting and working with various companies, doing some work for them, some workshops that I run with CIOs and their teams to really focus on, I would say, creating that ladder between technology and business priorities and helping them sort of discover what that looks like. That’s kind of stuff I’ve done for them. I’ve been spending some time working with some other groups, partnering with them on transformation and really how, especially with AI, how we help culturally get our organizations prepared for this disruption. And then more recently that led me to become part of the Institute for Digital Transformation as the head of their strategic alliances.
Jessica Carroll [00:16:39]:
So that’s brand new. That’s a three week old decision. But the, the roles are, are ones that allow me to not be sitting in an office from 8 in the morning till 5. I can work anytime, obviously anywhere. And for, for making sure that I’m available on phone calls. Yes. Sometimes the time difference is complicated. I spent the last three months in Thailand, which is 12 hours ahead, so that was certainly fun.
Jessica Carroll [00:17:09]:
And I did do a program at midnight while I was there. So you know, you, you, you just work around those, those things, the time zone changes. But you know, you make it work. You make it work.
Bernie Borges [00:17:22]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, of course you and I met through the Institute for Digital transformation. I recently got involved in that. It’s a wonderful organization, so that’s terrific. I want to shift gears a little bit, Jessica, as you know, on the life of Full Podcast and really my entire platform at Fulfilled at Work Academy, it’s based on what I call the five life pillars. Health, fitness, career, relationships, and legacy. So I want to hone in on, on one of those pillars specifically, and that’s the fitness pillar.
Bernie Borges [00:17:55]:
It’s a pillar that I’ve actively embraced for many, many decades now. But, but you’ve got a story about the fitness pillar, so why don’t you share that story?
Jessica Carroll [00:18:06]:
Yeah, you know, I, I never been super active at the gym. It just was of no interest to me, and life was kind and I didn’t really need to, to worry about things too much. But, you know, as we started our, our travel, you know, I’m in Spain, I’m eating, I’m, you know, and enjoying all of the things that you can, can do while you’re in Spain. And then went off to Africa and we did some safaris there, and they just feed you. They feed you so much food. And I, you know, ended up in Cape Town and, and took a look in the mirror and I said, oh, we are, we are at that turning point where this could go one of two ways, and I don’t like the way it’s going, and, and I would like to make sure that I stay healthy and keep the physique that I want. So I told my husband, we’re going to the gym. Luckily, our apartment had a gym in it, so we would go down every day.
Jessica Carroll [00:19:10]:
And I started working out very slowly. But the funny thing happened when I was exercising that I found that not only did it start to make my body feel better, but it was starting to affect my mind in a positive way. So my life is completely disrupted right now. Right. This is not a normal kind of structured life, which is what I always cling to. And I was missing that structure. And I found that going to the gym on a regular basis not only made me physically feel better, but it started to make my mental state better. And any anxiety that I might have with being disrupted to having to move around, getting, finding myself in a location I’m unfamiliar with, it helped take all of that away.
Jessica Carroll [00:19:57]:
So I go to the gym, and it just erases all of that kind of angst that I might feel, along with helping me be a stronger, physically able person. So it has changed my life in a very positive way. I am obsessed now with going to you’re obsessed.
Bernie Borges [00:20:14]:
Okay, so you went from it wasn’t a thing in your life to you’re obsessed.
Jessica Carroll [00:20:19]:
I’m obsessed.
Bernie Borges [00:20:20]:
That’s. That’s. Talk about, you know, going from one extreme to the other. That’s wonderful. I want to comment, though, on. On your comment about how it just makes you feel better. So, you know, I’ve been doing a little bit of research on neuroscience. I am not a neuroscientist, and I learned that when we’re active, when we’re engaging in physical fitness activity with.
Bernie Borges [00:20:44]:
With. With intentional exertion, there are at least five brain chemicals that fire off in our brain. One of them is an acronym, and I don’t remember what the four letters stand for. Bdnf. Again, I don’t remember what BDNF stands for, because that would be just a deeper dive. But here’s what I remember about BDNF when I looked into what it is and how it’s described. It’s described as fertilizer for your brain. When we exercise, we are triggering five brain chemicals, one of which is a fertilizer for our brain.
Bernie Borges [00:21:24]:
Jessica. Okay, so there’s your explanation. Even though it’s a very layperson’s explanation. I’m sure somewhere in, in the bowels of neuroscience literature, there can be a much more detailed explanation. But there’s a simple one for you.
Jessica Carroll [00:21:43]:
Well, who knew that going to the gym would ever give me fulfillment? So I’m going to go back to your word, and it really has. So that was such a positive outcome for me.
Bernie Borges [00:21:52]:
Terrific. Well, wow, what a great segue, because I want to unpack fulfillment a little bit more for you. And that is, again, across my five life pillars. Health. We’ve talked about fitness, career, relationships, legacy. Hit on any of those in whatever order you want. It doesn’t have to be all of them, but just elaborate a little bit on, you know, you and your husband are leading this nomad lifestyle. Look, the nomad lifestyle is attractive and appealing to a lot of people, just domestically where they live.
Bernie Borges [00:22:26]:
But for you, you’ve done it by. By moving from North America to continents, you know, across oceans. So speak to the fulfillment that you’re experiencing across those pillars.
Jessica Carroll [00:22:38]:
Well, I’ll start with relationships, because that’s an easy, clear line. I mean, I, you know, my work in general is all about relationships, and I think so that it’s obvious that that would be one of interest to me. But I think what’s really interesting on the relationship side is, you know, I, I had lots of Friends and family and colleagues back home and. And it was all fulfilling and hard to leave, hard to say goodbye. Even though I come back, I don’t always get to see everyone. It’s hard to do that. But what I have found is that as you move into a new location in a new city and you’re not there as, as someone that’s coming in for a week, but you’re there as someone that’s going to. To be there for a couple months, you really start to get into the rhythm of the city and the rhythm of local life.
Jessica Carroll [00:23:29]:
And the funny thing happens is you start to see the same people, whether it’s at the market or where you go to the restaurant or on the street or wherever it may be in the gym, and you start to develop new relationships. And it is amazing, it is wonderful, and it is fulfilling. And what’s fascinating to me is whether it’s Africa or Spain here in France, we were in Belize, in South Central America, Thailand, obviously in Asia, it doesn’t really matter where you are. There’s this thread of similarity in us as humans, and we can relate to each other just as well in one country as we can in another. If you are open and looking to create that connection, and I most certainly am, that’s very, very important to me. So I find that to be extraordinarily fulfilling. Even though I know a couple months from now I’m going to turn around and have to say goodbye to all these wonderful people that, I mean. But it’s still wonderful to have that connection.
Bernie Borges [00:24:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. So I haven’t experienced it in the same way that you’re experiencing it by living in other countries, but I know what you mean. I have met people in different walks of life, in different circumstances and in different places, even though, again, not different countries like, like you’re experiencing. So I can relate and I love your point and I totally agree. And again, I relate to the, the fact that we share a lot more in common than we have in differences. You know, in terms of different cultures, languages, upbringings, etc. There’s a lot more we have in common from a human.
Bernie Borges [00:25:19]:
Common from a humanity standpoint than, than differences. So I love your point about that. What about legacy, Jessica? So let me, let me first clarify what I mean by legacy, because I find that when I say that, it’s helpful. So legacy is not just how do you want to be remembered someday after you’re gone, but really what’s the impact that you can have today? So it’s not limited to how do you want to be remembered? But what’s the impact you can have today? And given the fact that you’re still active in the business community and you’re dealing with technology executives, and obviously you can’t have a conversation without AI being part of that conversation. And all the disruption and innovation that’s happening with AI, is there a connection there between the life you’re living and the impact that you’re having today and what we’re experiencing in business with this whole AI transformation movement?
Jessica Carroll [00:26:20]:
So I think the connection to AI and the disruption of it, and I’ve actually written about this, there is quite a connection in my mind to how do you manage and be adaptable and change, especially when you’re uncomfortable? So I’m super uncomfortable being put in a new situation. I have always been super uncomfortable, but I have always pushed myself into new situations on purpose for that reason. I do not want that to win. I just don’t. And I think that what I’m doing today, moving around as I. As I am, is putting myself absolutely intentionally in a disruptive state all of the time. And I think the skills and the process to get comfortable with being uncomfortable is something that applies to how we manage new technologies like the disruption of AI. Look, this is not new from the standpoint of we’ve been disrupted over and over again with technology and industries and all sorts of.
Jessica Carroll [00:27:28]:
This is. This is just, in my opinion, this is just sort of the circle of life. This is how it happens and how we evolve. So I think there’s a connection there. I think the question is, how do you help your teams in business adapt to the change? Because there are effects and consequences of a technology like AI as we know, and we’ve got to figure out how to solve for that and how to get our teams comfortably through that and successfully through that. So I think that there’s a huge connection or similarity in moving from country to country and adapting to new technology.
Bernie Borges [00:28:09]:
Couldn’t agree more. And I don’t know exactly when this episode’s going to publish, but I have two podcast episodes that I’m publishing on that very topic because I’ve already done three, and I’m doing two more because I think it just needs to be unpacked and we need to continue to share our insights with. With the world around, just all the planning and the change and getting comfortable with the. The newness and the uncomfortable of AI transformation. And I don’t think it’s even limited to the business, the workplace, just in life in general. We Have AI Just infiltrating our life, probably even more so than we’re aware. So. So, yeah, that’s great.
Bernie Borges [00:28:55]:
Before we. We get to wrapping here, do you know where you and your husb going to next after Paris, France?
Jessica Carroll [00:29:03]:
So we’re going to be in Paris for a bit. We’re going to head down to the south of France. I wanted to be on the beach in July, so we’ll be in south of France. I know this is so hard. I’m sorry if this sounds so, so easy, but again, it was. It was intentional. But then we’re going to come home, so then it’ll be time for us to come check in on mom, and we’ll do that. We’re going to actually spend a couple of months in the United States, different locations, visiting family and getting some time with everybody.
Jessica Carroll [00:29:39]:
And then I’ve got a couple of months where I need to figure out where we’re going next. We’re working on that right now. Since it’ll be October and November, my bet is someplace warm, sunny, with a beach, but we’ll see how that all goes kind of works itself out.
Bernie Borges [00:29:55]:
Okay. So that implies in a different hemisphere to consider. So. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. All right, Fantastic. Well, Jessica, look, you are a fascinating individual, and I want to thank you for sharing your story with us here on this episode of the Life Fulfilled podcast.
Bernie Borges [00:30:15]:
Before we let you go, where can someone connect with you and just kind of follow what you’re doing?
Jessica Carroll [00:30:21]:
Oh, yes, definitely. Come find me on LinkedIn. It’s the best place to connect with me. I am sharing bits and pieces of my story there and tying them to the business world as well. So it’s a place where you can pick up on those posts. You can also find me at the Institute for Digital Transformation, their website. I’m there, and it’s a good way to connect with me there as well.
Bernie Borges [00:30:45]:
Fantastic. Well, Jessica, my listener knows that both of those will be linked up in the show notes. And again, I just want to thank you so much for joining me today for this episode and sharing your story. Very inspiring and entertaining as well. I really thoroughly enjoyed it, so thank you so much.
Jessica Carroll [00:31:01]:
It was a pleasure. Thank you, Bernie.
