Bernie Borges [00:00:00]:
What if everything that tried to hold you back actually became the very thing that propelled you forward? My guest today didn’t just overcome adversity. She built a blueprint from it, and then she shared it with the world. Jordan Hathaway grew up in extreme poverty, but from those hardships came something extraordinary. An unshakable drive, a genius for human connection, and a career journey that took her from going door to door to fund her college education. And we’re going to hear about that. To the C suite of a global ed tech company. And today on this episode, we explore what it truly means to build a legacy. Not just how you want to be remembered when you’re gone, but the impact that you choose to have right now.
Bernie Borges [00:01:02]:
Jordan, welcome to the Life Fulfilled podcast.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:01:05]:
Oh, Bernie, I’m so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Bernie Borges [00:01:08]:
Well, thanks for being with me today. I’m excited for our conversation, and I know that you are prepared to tell us how your childhood hardship actually became a career superpower for you, what it looks like to. To intentionally reinvent yourself at every stage of life, and why decoupling achievement from fulfillment is one of the most important things that you do as a high achiever. And your project flat, which is an acronym. We’ll learn about that, how it’s transformed you from a VP of marketing into a C suite operations leader. We’ve got a lot to cover in about a half hour. So, Jordan, if we could. I think we should begin at the beginning.
Bernie Borges [00:01:51]:
Tell us that backstory.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:01:54]:
Well, like so many others, I am somebody who is a byproduct of a very different beginning than where I currently sit today. So when I think back to my beginnings, it really goes back into South Florida. Born into a very low socioeconomic. Of course, I wouldn’t have used those words. I would have said many different words. But I grew up in extreme poverty, and I grew up in a home that most often didn’t have electricity or running water, was constantly being shut off, and lived a life of continual evictions and trying to find other places to live. And those are my earliest recollections of what my. My childhood adversity started off like.
Bernie Borges [00:02:45]:
So at some point, you had some experiences that really sort of transformed your mindset, your attitude, your really what I understand, Jordan, to be your approach to life, including your drive. Tell us about that.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:03:00]:
Yeah, so in this growing up state, of course, I was exposed to a other students that were in my elementary school and looking at the clothes that they wore, the slumber parties that they were planning for birthday parties and presents and even the backpack or the lunchbox that they would have on the first day of school. One of my earliest recollections of shaping the way that I have approached life was after school, I would often go to what I would refer to as a safe house. And it was a place that I could go, that I could always sort of count on to have a lunch after school. And one of those houses had a TV that was always stuck on just one channel, no cable or anything like that. But it was a show called Bewitched, and Bewitched, for those who are too young to know what that is all about. But it was a show that featured a nuclear family, and it was really centered around a wife who had magical power. She was a witch. And the father of that show was an ad man.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:04:04]:
He was in advertising, and every single episode was all about his pitch of the day, that he really always sort of fumbled and his wife would come save the day. Now, in my little impressionable mind as a very small child in elementary school, what I was seeing with this show every single day is that there was a car, there was a Christmas tree, there was a home, there was dinner on the table every day at 6 o’, clock, there was a pool, there were birthday parties. And what my mind started to do was associate the advertising field and marketing field. Becoming an ad man, an ad man meant that you could have a safe home. Of course, I wasn’t putting those puzzle pieces together in an eloquent way, but it started to plant this seed of mine that if I could just become an ad man, that I could create this family that I so desperately wanted to have, and the feeling of safety and satisfaction and laughter and joy and where the everyday worries seemed a lot less egregious than the worries that I was having at that particular time in my life.
Bernie Borges [00:05:21]:
So it sounds like that gave you some inspiration and it gave you some drive and motivation. So. And you’re sharing a story, Jordan, from childhood, right? So as you were growing and maturing in your youth, I’m sure you realized that to become an ad man, of course, you’re a woman, so I know what you mean by ad man. It’s generic. How did you get there? I mean, doesn’t that require college? How did you go about that chapter of your life?
Jourdan Hathaway [00:05:54]:
So one of the things I really understood very early on was that education was the out for all the dynamics that I saw around me. The families that I saw thriving had a common thread, that their parents had these secure jobs and to get those jobs, I knew that education was going to be very important. I remember so vividly thinking, I have got to get good grades so that I can go to college. I had no clue how I would afford college, but I knew that scholarships would be available and other support may be available. So I remember this one episode where in Bewitched once again, they had to do a fundraising exercise. They were raising funds for something. I don’t even remember what it was, but they were fundraising. And I thought, well, maybe I could go door to door fundraising as part of my ability to gather money to go to college.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:06:56]:
And as silly as that sounds, I just, I remembered that seed being planted early on. And I remember in Bewitched time and time again, there was the art of storytelling. Storytelling is this recurrent theme that would often happen in the show. And whether it was the pitch or some other flavor of shenanigans and navigation. But storytelling was a really integral part of the show. So I was really focused on getting good grades. And as I progressed into high school then I became acutely aware that college was inaccessible for many, many students without support and without need. So one day I took 11 by 17, like legal pad, one of those old yellow, you might remember them.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:07:42]:
And I took a pen and I just wrote my story. And my story was all about how I wanted to change the trajectory of my life and I wanted to go to college and I wanted to give back and be a contributing member of society. But I couldn’t quite do that. And I thought I could convince them by a telling them what I had grown up in and having a copy of my report card. And so I went door to door to my local optometrist, the local dentist, the local deli owner. I even remember it was in South Florida, the Freemasons of Miami, having no clue what that building was or what solicitation laws were, by the way. And I actually used this tactic quite a bit even in elementary school. I remember going door to door selling my homemade perfume because I was trying to raise money for back to school clothes for myself.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:08:33]:
And those different habits really sort of ingrained inside of me this ethic to say, well, if you don’t have it, try to figure out how to get it. So I not only did that, I got, of course, academic scholarships and different scholarships that were available by taking the time to write to every single one that I can find at the local library. We didn’t have the Internet as easy it is today to find scholarships. And what happened is, one by one I started getting checks and offers and coupling that and having a job and having the scholarships. I remember packing up my car that I bought with the last $5 in rolled nickels, by the way, if that tells you how expensive my car was, $1,500. And packing everything and going to college. And that’s how I ended up going to college. And to me, what was the most important thing that I did is after that very first quarter, in that first semester with my report card, I wrote every single one of those people that gave me money.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:09:41]:
And some of these, we’re talking $100, $500. And I would write to them that I’ve made good on my promise. I am becoming an ad woman, an ad man. I’m continuing down the marketing and advertising track. And here’s a copy of my report card, my first report card, straight A’s. And if you would consider continuing to sponsor my journey. And so of course I wouldn’t have known it at the same time, but I’m creating a loyalty and retention program. And so I started to really start to see the power of relationships, of vulnerability, of storytelling and of resilience.
Bernie Borges [00:10:20]:
Jordan, a few thoughts here. First of all, anybody listening who doesn’t have chill bumps right now is multitasking and should just focus on your story because it is one of those stories, Jordan. It’s a, it’s a chill bump evoking story. It’s really heart wrenching and immensely inspiring. So thank you for sharing that. And so by the way, a little bit of a tangent here. I am of age, I watch Bewitched. Is my recollection correct? Was it Darren and Samantha?
Jourdan Hathaway [00:10:56]:
Darren and Samantha. There you go. I owe my entire marketing and advertising career to Darren and Samantha.
Bernie Borges [00:11:03]:
Darren being the ad man, Samantha being the, the. The. The. The witch. Although which is kind of a bad label because you. The connotation is, you know, someone.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:11:13]:
She was magical.
Bernie Borges [00:11:14]:
Mean and nasty words.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:11:15]:
She was magical and the most wonderful.
Bernie Borges [00:11:17]:
Magical and sweet and friendly and fun and also entertainingly kind of fun. Anyway, so fast forward to today. You are in the C suite. You’re chief business officer at General assembly, which is a global talent and upskilling company online. And you know, the, the story that you just shared is just again, so inspiring. And one of the things that I said to you when we had our prep call for this convers and I remember how you reacted and that is I said that that upbringing, that background gave you an unfair advantage because of how it instilled in you such a strong sense of resilience and motivation. So I’d love for you to comment on that. The fact that you have an unfair advantage based on that background.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:12:14]:
I remember watching a commencement speech and it was from a very, very successful person. And they said, one of the things that I hope, I hope happens to each of you is that you endure insurmountable hardship at some point. And you might be flabbergasted to hear me say that, but the only way that you can really, truly be, build grit and resilience is by navigating that which seems impossible at the time. And I really think there’s a lot of truth to that now. I could not recall growing up ever thinking anything I was experiencing was an advantage. But as I look back, I realize how instrumental and how calcifying it was to how I approach life today and how much of a catalyst it was. There’s really only two directions you can take when you grow up in odds that way. And there’s so many of us.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:13:22]:
There’s so many of us. You do one of two things. You repeat the cycle and you continue to be in the landscape of which you’re familiar with and surrounded with and. And you mimic the behaviors that you see all around you and think that I am destined, I am destined to repeat this life, or you somehow find the grit and courage to say, no, this is not where I’m heading. And even though I don’t have the resources, the capital, the experience, or any of the advantages in front of me today, I am not taking no for an answer. I will find my path forward and I will keep going, no matter what lays out in front of me because I will change my trajectory. And I think that is an unfair advantage that I can see today because there’s so many obstacles that any business leader, anyone has in their day to day life. And I’m able to contextualize challenges in such a different way, in such a different lens, and to break them down into digestible chunks to figure out a path forward.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:14:27]:
They just don’t break me down like what they could have had. I’ve not faced a lot of adversity.
Bernie Borges [00:14:33]:
Yeah. The way that I would characterize that. And you actually alluded to this a little bit earlier in this conversation. You use the word figure out and I love the phrase that something. And in this case your scenario going to college to become an admin was figureoutable. And you love that you figured it out. You didn’t, you didn’t say you didn’t take no for the answer. You didn’t say I can’t do this because of my circumstances.
Bernie Borges [00:15:02]:
You said it’s figureoutable whether you know those are words or a word you used or not. But that was your mindset. And again, it’s so inspiring and so chill bump Evoking. Where I want to go next is Jordan. You know that on the Life Fulfilled podcast, my whole platform is based on what I call the five life pillars of fulfillment, that every single one of us that has a beating heart, that we’re all seeking fulfillment across these five life pillars. Health, fitness, career, relationships, and legacy. We’ll get to legacy. I don’t want to go there just yet.
Bernie Borges [00:15:36]:
I first want to talk about something that you speak about, and that’s decoupling fulfillment from achievement. What do you mean by that,
Jourdan Hathaway [00:15:49]:
Bernie? I’ve been working on this for the better part of four and a half decades, and it is one of the critical aspects of wisdom. Not knowledge, not intelligence, but wisdom that you can ascertain. I remember achievement being my North Star for a very long time because I thought if I just get straight A’s this quarter and the next quarter and the next quarter and the next quarter and the next quarter, then, and then only will I have a measure of success. And, oh, I remember one time I got a B1B in my entire high school and I thought my whole life was over. It’s funny to look at that now and laugh about that now, but that B becomes a different barometer of success. And so as I fully go on to graduate and become an ad man. Ad woman, Right. I have all the milestones of achievement.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:16:47]:
And what I realize is every time you do that, the goal post just goes to the next thing. Thing, right? So I never found that I could ever really rest in satisfaction when it was all wrapped up in achievement. I’m proud of my achievements, but it was not what really satisfied me. And when I think about a moment that really satisfied me, what comes to my mind are guttural belly laughs. When I’m with my family watching Stand up, and I’m so immersed in this communal experience of laughter that everything else just kind of fades away and I’m really present. And that’s when you start to go, okay, There are aspects of life that are completely separate from the title, from financial security, from whatever other barometer you’re using for success that ultimately leads to the satisfaction. And when I wake up today, and as I have for many years, as I’ve been working on this, I wake up today so satisfied and decoupled. Now, from what my title is, okay,
Bernie Borges [00:18:01]:
that’s interesting because there’s alignment, but there’s also some semantics in play here that I’ll just comment on. Jordan. So I say that for fulfillment is different than happiness. Happiness is the emotion we experience associated with some kind of a circumstance. Can be any circumstance where we experience happiness. Fulfillment is different because I say that fulfillment is connected to either achievement, we’ve achieved something, it gives us that sense of fulfillment. Satisfaction is kind of a synonym for it. But also fulfillment can be connected to purpose.
Bernie Borges [00:18:38]:
If you wake up every day and you have purpose, even, even on a bad day, you still are doing life in a fulfilled way, because what you’re doing, you’re doing it with purpose. So I say, I say it’s a deeper emotion. I also say, Jordan, that fulfillment in most cases is immutable because again, it’s usually associated with purpose or some great achievement. For example, simple example, completing your college education, getting your degree. That fulfillment that you achieved in that moment at that, you know, that accomplishment, that’s immutable, Jordan, Nothing can take that away. And that’s what I mean by fulfillment is it’s something that we either achieve or we do with purpose. And so it’s immutable. So I think there’s a lot of alignment there.
Bernie Borges [00:19:25]:
Any comment on that before I move on?
Jourdan Hathaway [00:19:28]:
The distinction that I’m really underscoring with you is take the example of the degree, in this case, their certificate. For me, the fulfillment in that was not just great. I showed up to class, I did the test, and I got the degree. Check the box. I’m on to the next thing the fulfillment came with. I accomplished what I set out to do, and I’m able to change my trajectory as a result. And it is something, you know, those who train for a marathon and they cross the finish line, whether they’re the last person or the first person, the work that they put into practice every single day has such a deep skill, seated fulfillment that comes along with that accomplishment. So I absolutely agree with you.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:20:11]:
And I do wake up with such a meaningful purpose. I work in workforce development, and that is so uniquely tied to my circumstance of seeing what economic mobility can do for a person and changing their legacy around them.
Bernie Borges [00:20:23]:
Yeah, in my world, when I teach a workshop, I always put a lot of preparation. Even though I’ve got baseline content, I still prepare to tailor it for the the participants. So at on the other side, when I’ve completed it, that sense of fulfillment is just immense. So I can completely relate to that. Okay. Let’s, let’s move on to flat. I, I, I want to hear about what it is, why you, you created this thing you call flat. I know it’s an acronym.
Bernie Borges [00:20:55]:
What is it? And the impact that it’s had on your life and career.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:21:01]:
Yes, Project flat. So when I was, I guess this was a few years ago now. Well, it was a few years ago now I was Vice President of Marketing. And I found myself in what I thought was the dream role for me, which was in marketing. And at one point I realized that my scope of responsibility was going to change to a CPU coo, Chief Operations Officer, which sounds incredible, right? Finally made it to the C suite. Only Bernie, I did not wake up as a marketer and go, oh, good news. Now that I am a COO and title, I speak CapEx, OpEx, EBITDA, financial terms. No, no, no, no, no.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:21:44]:
I did not speak any of the language of finance. And so I authored my own professional development plan and I called it Project flat, Financial Literacy Advancement Training. Why did I call it that? Because finance seemed at the time so intimidating to me, so foreign to me, so unfamiliar to me that I needed to create a system for myself A, to make it interesting and to hold myself accountable to it. And because I’m a marketer, so, you know, I market things even if it’s to myself just to wake up in the morning and say, today I’ve got to do Project flat. There’s something a little bit more interesting about that as my calendar invite to myself than just financial training. So what I did is I created Now I did not know that I was creating this plan that I would later share. What I started was, identified my gaps. I started to say I have to own my own professional development.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:22:43]:
Nobody is coming to me to say, Jordan, here are your skills gap and I need you to do X, Y and Z. And then, and only then, will you be ready for the opportunity that is in front of you today. Just like when I was younger and at every other stage in my life, you reach a crossroads and opportunity is there and you’ve got the choice. Do you say, I’m not ready, you know I’m not ready, or do you say, I’m not ready yet, but I will get there? And it is to use your words, Bernie. Figure audible. So I do the figureoutable, I do the work. The most important part of the whole thing was networking like crazy along this learning journey and then applying my learns along the way and letting other people know what I was working on so that I could come to them without fear of embarrassment or fear of exposure. You know, you think you get to these executive levels and you’re supposed to have it all figured out.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:23:37]:
Guess what? You don’t. And this is what I’ve. That is maybe one of the biggest aha moments about being with other executives is that everyone has a gap or a skill that they need to work on. And so the most important part about the figureoutable aspect is surrounding yourselves with others who have been down that road before, where that subject matter is table stakes for them, it is what they eat, sleep, live, breathe so that they can impart that knowledge, that applied knowledge, and work with you. And then, of course, at the end of the day, you pay it forward, you know, with your own domain of expertise. And so that’s what I started doing. I did a whole professional development plan. It was all just written in a journal, just like I’ve been doing since the third grade.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:24:26]:
Writing in my journal. I would write when I would bomb a meeting and I would use terms incorrectly and I would apply the wrong thinking, or I would mix up terminology, or maybe I was reading the P and L incorrectly and I would just own it. And then I would hold a meeting with that person and I would say, listen, I know that in this meeting, I didn’t capture this and this correctly. Help me understand where I missed the mark and how I can apply it differently. Next time, they would explain it the next time I would have that meeting, and of course, I would be in a much different place. I would go back and thank them and let them know that that knowledge that they gave to me, I applied, I used, and it was helpful. And I think people love to know that they’re providing value to others. Everyone wants to feel valuable, and that’s a really important thing.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:25:12]:
Through line. Time and time again, as I think back to all these pivotal moments, is not only acquiring the knowledge, but really connecting with those that are helping me level up in that area and then reinforcing what their influence and their impact is on me time and time again, human to human. And it means. I think it means a lot for both sides.
Bernie Borges [00:25:37]:
Yeah, that’s terrific. I don’t think. Think I can recall. Not that I’ve seen every episode of Bewitched, but I don’t know that Darren ever talked about EBITDA in any of his pitches. Right,
Jourdan Hathaway [00:25:52]:
Exactly, Bernie. Exactly. That’s why I didn’t know it.
Bernie Borges [00:25:55]:
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So. But again, you know, more inspiration from your story, Jordan, about how you really figured it out on your own and created your own program for you, but then, of course, sharing with others. Which leads me to the topic of legacy. Right. Because legacy is about impact, I often say, and this is something that I cover again in my workshops.
Bernie Borges [00:26:19]:
Legacy is not just about how do you want to be remembered, but it’s about the impact you can have today. I know when I shared that with you, you gave me a big head nod. So elaborate on that and what that means to you.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:26:31]:
Yes, well, when I think think about legacy, I absolutely. I’m not thinking about just what people will say about me when I’m gone. My driver, every single day since elementary school was who I can be to myself and to everyone in my microcosm in a very impactful and meaningful way. And as I’ve leveled up in every domain of my life, wanting to immediately turn around and help others has become such an important part of my purpose and my mission and my satisfaction. Bernie, you said something a little bit earlier where you said, jordan, you’ve really figured it out on your own. And what I will say is, I own. I have figured out that I am responsible, responsible for my path forward, but there is not an ounce about my lot in life that has not been a byproduct of others investing in me and helping me. So that is so important for me to turn around and do the same thing to others.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:27:44]:
And the legacy that I have today is I want to show my family and my kids that you can reach this executive level, and you can also show up to orchestra concerts every time that they exist, and you can have the things that maybe I didn’t have, but you can also instill a little bit of grit and resilience by saying, you’re going to have a job and you’re going to be able to learn these lessons so that you, too, can grow the muscle of problem solving on your own. Legacy, for me, is so important because every single chapter that I have overcome or I have navigated has been all so that I can create a safe, loving, joyful, purposeful environment for myself and for all the people that I mentor and influence and. And help and assist. And that shows up in so many big ways, from my open adoption to the people that I mentor, to how I show up as a leader at work, to any of the organizations that I’m a part of. It’s as important to me as anything else that I do well.
Bernie Borges [00:29:05]:
Jordan, your story, again, is very, very inspiring and really just gives us all so much to think about, not the least of which is the. The value of overcoming struggles. And for you, that started at a very young age, but that really, it was kind of a catalyst for you to really drive, figure things out. And I love your point about how, you know, when I said you figured it out, obviously I didn’t mean that literally as you figured it out on your own, but you drove it like you were the quarterback. That’s the metaphor, right? You quarterbacked your scenario, your life, and then you went out and made it happen. You found the resources. You didn’t wait for them to come to you or for them to find you. You went out and found them.
Bernie Borges [00:29:54]:
And. And I just think your story is just so, so inspiring and so enjoyable to hear. And you know, what I see all over your story, Jordan, is fulfillment. And maybe I’m clouded because I’m all about fulfillment, right? But I see that in your story, like everything that I’ve hear. And I often say, Jordan, I often say that even though when I look in the rearview mirror, my own life, I didn’t use the word fulfillment often to express what I was experiencing or feeling, but that’s what it was. And that’s kind of what I’m sensing from your story, that you have tremendous fulfillment in many areas of your life, whether or not you choose to use that specific word.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:30:37]:
Very, very fair assumption. It’s a very fair assumption. And being able to even hold two paradoxes at the same time when you’re in maybe a state where not everything is working out. But to say, I believe that I can quarterback the change that’s necessary to get over whatever this hurdle is. I have inside me the ability to navigate and weather hardships and the joy and the satisfaction and the purpose that you have when you’re on the other side of that and can leverage whatever learns you have from that chapter that are resonant with somebody else who are going through a similar circumstance, to be able to use that to help somebody else out of that is a really, really fulfilling and worthy life. It really is. So, yes, I’m so happy that I’ve reached a place where I’m fulfilled and I’m happy I still have so much more to do. And I, even at this stage, I go, okay, here’s the next bunch of things to have figureoutable.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:31:41]:
Hello, AI transformation. But, yes, it’s a wonderful place to be.
Bernie Borges [00:31:48]:
Fantastic. Well, Jordan, where would my listener go to connect with you and just learn more about you and get into your world?
Jourdan Hathaway [00:31:57]:
Bernie, there is a U in my name that I bet you didn’t know if you’re just listening to this, it’s Jordan J O U R D A N. Jordan with the U half the way. So jordan hathaway.com where it’s where you can find me or on LinkedIn. Jordan Hathaway. That’s Jordan with a U. I would love to connect with with the audience and listeners.
Bernie Borges [00:32:16]:
Fantastic. Well, Jordan, Jordan with a you.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:32:19]:
Jordan with the U.
Bernie Borges [00:32:20]:
My listener knows that all that would be linked up in the show notes and I just want to thank you so much from the bottom of my fulfilled heart for joining me on this episode of the Life Fulfilled podcast again. Your story is so heartwarming and I want to leave you with this thought. Jordan, I wish for you a continuation of a life filled with belly laughs.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:32:45]:
Oh, I love that.
Bernie Borges [00:32:47]:
That’s my wish for you.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:32:49]:
I’ll take it. That’s the best wish I can have. Love it.
Bernie Borges [00:32:52]:
Thank you so much, Jordan.
Jourdan Hathaway [00:32:54]:
Thanks for having me.
