Bernie Borges [00:00:00]:
Michele A. Mathews, welcome to the Life Fulfilled podcast.
Michele A. Mathews [00:00:06]:
Thank you so much for having me, Bernie. I’m very excited to be here today.
Bernie Borges [00:00:10]:
Well, thank you, Michelle. I’m excited to have you. I’m excited for our conversation. It’s going to be a little bit of a different conversation. You and I met through one of your roles. You, I guess you have a couple of professional roles. You are the president of the HR Tampa organization, which is a SHRM chapter. So that’s a sort of a volunteer leadership role.
Bernie Borges [00:00:33]:
And then you have your own business. You’re the founder and the president of Matthews HR and Safety Consulting Services, which is a leading consultancy in hr, safety and risk management. You’re also a trainer. You are highly credentialed, including an mba, certifications in phr, sherm, scp, smp, osha, authorized trainer for both construction and general industry. So a very accomplished professional in your field and what we decided that we would discuss today on this podcast episode, well, on a daily basis you have the experience and as I mentioned, the credentials to teach on these topics that I just mentioned. In your professional context, you’ve got a story to tell that is beyond that. It’s just not about your career. Really touches, as we discussed in preparation for this podcast, all of the five pillars in my platform, health, fitness, career, relationships and legacy, but specifically really anchored in or influenced by a personal health related situation.
Bernie Borges [00:01:47]:
So why don’t we begin there? Michelle, you’ve got a story that I know you want to share about a traumatic incident that you had that really influenced just everything in your life. So why don’t we begin there?
Michele A. Mathews [00:01:59]:
Yes, thank you. So I had a very fluke accident when I was 10 years old. I was in after school daycare. My parents were both working and they wanted to figure out a way to help us burn off some energy. And we did a relay race, but instead of normal, we did it backwards. So I was running backwards with a ball behind my head in the school playground. I tripped, fell, hit both sciatica nerves at the exact same time, causing temporary paralysis. Obviously that was not in the game plan for us.
Michele A. Mathews [00:02:34]:
I got rushed off to the hospital. Multiple tests later, multiple hours passed. My dad really didn’t think I was walking out of that hospital ever. But while I was sitting there, I listened to the doctor and he was making certain comments, assumptions, and it made me think, this is not who we are, just based on what has happened to us or what we look like. And I credit the fact that I had to miss after school programs and cheerleading and all that and sit on my dad’s job sites for a while and see what was happening to really make a change. I initially was going gung ho for the FBI after military service and all that had to change because of my now medical background. So it’s really transcended what I was planning to do. But I think I am here for a reason and able to walk for a reason to make that difference.
Michele A. Mathews [00:03:35]:
And so that’s how it’s been impacting me from the get go.
Bernie Borges [00:03:39]:
Okay, and you said you were what age 10? Okay, so you were still young, you were still a child, not a little kid, but nonetheless 10 or 10 year old. How did that impact you as you were in your teenage years and into college? And you mentioned that you were thinking you wanted to go into the FBI. I don’t think you were going to do that at age 10. Right. That was in your future. But maybe take us through those formative years between age 10 and early adulthood.
Michele A. Mathews [00:04:11]:
Sure. So the accident, besides the temporary paralysis, really ruined some of my discs in my back and so it limited what I was allowed to do. So with that being said, I know the physical fitness portions of different programs I couldn’t run because of the pain that it was causing and other things. So I had to start thinking ahead. And my dad is a very big ahead thinker. So he and my mom really started saying, what are you going to do? This was your plan. You can’t do that anymore because of the physical fitness portion. What’s going to happen? And so I was doing different things that teenagers do, babysitting and then sports and things like that.
Michele A. Mathews [00:04:55]:
I had to be the scribe for things. My brother played baseball. I was the scorekeeper then. I was doing normal things with my friends, but always had to be not the active participant outside of like dance. Right. Or rotc. And that kind of made me start to think, really, what am I going to do? I can’t do what I wanted to do. So now I got to pivot.
Michele A. Mathews [00:05:20]:
And my whole goal is not to just sit all day. I want to do something that’s impactful. And it resonated with me when I was watching those construction workers. They were doing things they shouldn’t have been doing, going up the ladder the wrong way, doing things like jumping instead of getting down and going to the next ladder to do some of the things. And so it made me see these people could really be hurt. And I would start telling my dad, hey, this guy’s doing this, this guy’s doing that. And just because I Know, I got lucky that I could walk again. These guys possibly could, not especially doing electrical.
Michele A. Mathews [00:06:01]:
Even going into some of those job sites and hearing the guys when they would come in the office to turn in time, cards, paychecks, etc. It was really glaring at me. But it took me a while to figure out that this is what I enjoyed and trying to make things better for others. So I would come up with different ways that they could do the job without necessarily getting hurt or putting themselves at risk outside of the normal OSHA things we would think about. And so that’s where it kicked off. My dad said you really took a liking to this and reading on what we could do for the employees and getting insulated tools and just different things like that. So comes the part where he’s, you seem to care. You seem to be really good at talking with anybody and getting them to tell you what the deal is.
Michele A. Mathews [00:06:51]:
Unlike when they talk to him, they’ll be like, yes, we did everything we’re supposed to. So I think that’s what sparked it. And again, he’s always a forward thinker. So he’s got me thinking years from now down the line, and if he didn’t have his business. And then my brother, right around 18, he caught the. When I was 18, he caught the acting bug at University of Tampa, and he started playing in, like, musicals. And he needed someone that could run the audio system for him, a big Mackie board. So he’s, hey, you can’t, like, act and all that.
Michele A. Mathews [00:07:27]:
Can you do this for us? So I learned to do that and we started going to senior living facilities as well while I was still working with my dad, 18 on up and young adult. And I would see people getting warehoused and residents getting hurt and also employees getting hurt. So I think that’s where it really solidified in my early 20s about making a big difference across the board. Just like little tweaks, even having the right shoes or the right insulated tool and using it properly. I think it just dawned on me then that’s the way I could potentially make a better influence for somebody. Because I want to always make sure I’m doing not only the right thing, but the right thing for that person. Ever since I was little, I was always the one who would stand up to bullies, too. So I think it’s just ingrained.
Bernie Borges [00:08:20]:
Okay, well, a little more context for the listener. Michelle, you and I met specifically through your role as president of HR Tampa. You graciously invited me to speak at a monthly chapter event in April. And I was very impressed with your professionalism. Like how I’m going to use the phrase buttoned up, how buttoned up you are about all things HR and representing shrm, Society for Human Resource Managers, and specifically the Tampa chapter where you’re the president. But this story gives me insight into the motivation, the psychographic, if you will, on what motivated you down this career path. So maybe you can unpack that a little bit more because. Because it seems to me that it’s not a normal journey into hr.
Bernie Borges [00:09:14]:
And you also approach it very. I don’t know if holistic is the right way to say it. You’re both risk and safety. Right. So hr, safety and risk. So how does that fit into your story, meaning your background? How did all of that come together for you?
Michele A. Mathews [00:09:35]:
Great question, Bernie. So for me, I would say the way I was raised alongside the employees for my dad’s firm. But I’ll take it a step back from there. Growing up, my brother played baseball, and my dad was his coach. One year he wanted to go into the special side of the baseball section, and they said, you don’t have enough players on the team and you can’t do that. So my dad and his friend who also worked with him at the construction company, they decided to be coaches. And obviously my brother and his son were on the team. There was a group of kids that couldn’t find a team.
Michele A. Mathews [00:10:16]:
Nobody would accept them. And my dad’s like, why? Why does no one want them? They were from the children’s home, and my dad’s, okay, so they still can play baseball. Why? Why can’t they? They can’t buy their bats, they can’t buy the gloves, blah, blah, blah, blah. They can’t get to practice. Being the way we were raised, my dad’s, that’s just a ridiculous thought. So my dad went and talked to the guys and they wanted to play. So I have a whole extra set of brothers now. But I grew up around them and they taught me a lot of different things going on in their world.
Michele A. Mathews [00:10:46]:
And I’m like, wow, I never knew that existed. So seeing some of their plight that they went through, seeing what the employees went through with kids and their wives and their other spouses and things that they always had to look at while they’re trying to work. And again, it’s in a really safety conscious job, if their mind is too busy worried about, you know, mama getting groceries for the kids or a new baby coming and not having insurance, they’re not focused on work. And that’s when you start to see frequency and severity. So again, more of, like you mentioned, their holistic approach. I’m like, if I could figure out ways to help the guys that were playing baseball with my brother and finding work for them and getting them to and from baseball and all that, so my mom would pick them up. Like, we always figure out a way to help fix it. So between them.
Michele A. Mathews [00:11:40]:
And then same thing with the guys and the girls that worked with my dad. I’m like, oh, I can figure out how to get groceries and things like that. So if paycheck’s on Friday, but you need paycheck on Thursday. I looked at different payroll companies that we were working with and found one that could work to eliminate. So again, they could focus just on work and being safe. I started to see the trend of that happening. And as my dad mentioned, I love to talk to people. I know you saw that as well.
Michele A. Mathews [00:12:13]:
So I just kind of figure out how I could help. Not necessarily do everything for someone, but how I can help. Maybe open a door or find a connection. And I’ll say I probably will credit the most. One of our electricians had a really bad accident, and we didn’t know if he was going to make it. So we flew his family in from Texas, put them up in hotels. I went and bought all types of groceries for them, and we brought tons of coolers and just made sure that they had food and they had reliable transportation. I think either my brother or I gave our truck up so they had reliable transportation to and from the hospital.
Michele A. Mathews [00:12:54]:
That electrician came back with us, and the first thing he said is, when can I get back to work? I gotta pay skip back. And my dad was like, you don’t owe me anything. I just want to make sure you’re okay. So I think those items all together, plus again, how we were raised, that nurture in nature side of the house really solidified for me how I can use what happened to me and what I’m hearing and what I’m good at to make an impact for that human side.
Bernie Borges [00:13:26]:
You just said something that I want to key in on, Michelle. You said what I’m hearing, if I heard you correctly, and I know that from a previous conversation, that active listening is something that’s very important to you. Maybe you take that for granted because you’ve been doing it so well for so long, but I’d love for you to unpack that because that is part of your superpower.
Michele A. Mathews [00:13:50]:
Yeah, I think it is. And I get a lot of compliments on it. That I don’t expect because people said, wow, you really listened to what I had to say and took out key parts. And so for me, I feel like we’re always on that hamster wheel. And so even when you ask someone like, how are you doing today? They’ll just say, fine. And because they’re so busy or they think you are so busy, you don’t have time for it. And that’s one of the things I can really just focus, shut my brain off. I call it compartmentalize.
Michele A. Mathews [00:14:25]:
Get into that mindset of whoever I’m with at that moment. I’m listening truly to what they’re saying and the intent behind it, not just the words, because sometimes we don’t have the right words, but I think that’s important. And visualization of talking to someone and looking in their eyes, watching their body language, truly hearing what they’re trying to tell you, not listening to be able to answer. And that’s what too many people do from my perspective, instead of seeing what they can truly do for someone or just to give an ear 5, 10 minutes. Right. Not checking an email, not checking your phone, but truly listening. And you mentioned that that’s one of my superpowers in hr Tampa, when I was just as a regular member and different roles I’ve held, people would always say, you actually listened to something that I said. Just introducing myself to you.
Michele A. Mathews [00:15:24]:
And then you’re like, oh, you like so. And I’m going to introduce you to xyz, other member you guys I think would hit it off really well. And I would consistently do that to the 200 plus members. At one point it was almost 450 members. But I think it’s important because so often we are just another number. And I want to make sure people feel at least with me, that they are truly listened to. I’m not perfect, I have my off days. But listening for what’s truly being said and that intent and just giving that direct focus.
Bernie Borges [00:15:59]:
Yeah. Something else that you also said that I think is part of that superpower thing, Michelle, is impact. You mentioned it earlier and I know you even mentioned it in a previous conversation. And I’m wondering, and I’ve not asked you this question before, so I’m asking you it in the moment, in real time here. And that is with your credentials, you can be in a senior HR leadership role in a corporate setting easily, but you’re not, you’re doing it in your own business as a leading consultancy. So you’re working with multiple organizations. Speak to that. What’s the fulfillment that you get from that, the impact that you’re having from that versus being in a corporate HR leadership role.
Michele A. Mathews [00:16:45]:
Great question. I actually had the goal of being the chief human resources and safety officer for a mid size or larger business and I got there and I spent five years there and I did have impact. I saw people who were quick to just, oh, you got your third write up, you’re gone. Instead of finding out what occurred or not having the right people in the role. And so during my time with my last company, the they really gave me the ability to create what needed to be as we continue to grow. We started with 10 locations and ended up with 27 locations. Some we built, some we just managed. But why I actually started my own is I.
Michele A. Mathews [00:17:32]:
Not that I had fixed everything or helped people get everywhere they needed to be, but that impact on a larger scale. There are quite a few people who are in different positions that perhaps are in their positions and shouldn’t be in there anymore. Maybe they burnt out or they’re just in the wrong position and that can truly impact your biggest asset, which is your staff. I started to know that I wanted to make a difference in a larger scale and it was in healthcare that I was for 10 years after construction and my dad had actually started another business in manufacturing. And so small business owners would chat with him in different places and he would always have a question like, oh, what would you do if you were me for this HR thing? Or how do I do this? How do I make retention happen? And he’s oh, let’s just call Michelle. So I would do a lot of evening and weekends trying to help those smaller businesses because they didn’t have someone who had the experience and they couldn’t necessarily afford a full time person with that experience that I brought to the table. And so I started to see an impact there positively. One of the gentlemen, he was really distraught and was thinking about leaving the company and he had confided in me, he had thought about going through with suicide and he, he wrote me a letter several weeks after I helped him and literally all I did was listen to the problem he was having and figured out a divorce attorney that specialized in helping men who are lower income than their partners that have children.
Michele A. Mathews [00:19:21]:
And he was afraid of losing his kids so he never really concentrated at work and I was able to just bring them together and he actually has full custody of his children and he sent me the sweetest letter ever and told me about the fact he was going to go through with it. And because he thought he had no other option. And just giving him that time and the active listening and making one connection changed his life. And he actually now owns his own business and has a ton of employees. And so he was very happy when I started my own firm and told me he didn’t want any other HR or safety person to deal with his team because he was afraid they wouldn’t have the same experience he did. To me, it’s that second paycheck, that inside internal heart paycheck that does make the difference for me of why I am glad I left that big corporate world. I still help some, sure, but I can make it more impactful individually.
Bernie Borges [00:20:24]:
So it’s. So it’s all about impact for you. And. And I know that you also look at skills development and the way people should approach skills kind of uniquely with the perspective that you have from your background, your story, and how a lot of things have just come together for you from that journey. So you want to comment on that, on your approach to looking at skills and encouraging people to develop skills?
Michele A. Mathews [00:20:52]:
Yes. Thank you for that. One thing that’s really cool to me is we all have the ability to learn if it’s of interest to us, right? I’m guilty of that. It has to be something of interest. And I had quite a few mentors when I worked in my dad’s company and in healthcare because I couldn’t work directly for my dad. I needed a buffer, right? And they would say, hey, Michelle, you’re really good at X, Y and Z. Have you ever thought about this? And I’m like, no, that’s. That’s not something I do.
Michele A. Mathews [00:21:22]:
And they’re like, why? I’m like, I don’t know. There’s no interest yet. So they were like, if you want to learn, you can come with us and we’ll figure it out. And so I had those opportunities that maybe another person wouldn’t have had the opportunity for, or I’m glad they didn’t take. I’m just not sure because there are times that I’m like, man, I don’t know how I did that. But it’s, as I look back, several different increments that I moved up in my path and my learning. So I actually tell people, if a company is offering to provide you training, whether or not you think you need it, take it. Someone who worked with me, shared with me that she keeps, keeps that in mind with her all the time.
Michele A. Mathews [00:22:05]:
And so a company offered her an opportunity to learn a series 7. And this was not her jam at all. And she is now running circles around counterparts who thought that she was just a theater kid or different people who have things like that in their world making a difference to just watching some of the skill set, even though they don’t necessarily fit the mold of what that job description says, Take what they have and fit the job to the worker because again, they’re your biggest asset. And if you can help them in their career path, think about that value add. When they talk to your customers or they talk to other staff members, they’re your best marketing piece ever. But the same route, if you’re like, oh, they didn’t have that college degree and I really want that, but they were rock stars and everything else, and you didn’t take them on just because of the college degree. I got mine in my late 30s and my early 40s, so I got other certifications early because that’s what everybody wanted. But school just wasn’t a great path at the time.
Michele A. Mathews [00:23:12]:
But I have over 27 years doing this, and so I really appreciate the fact that I have that opportunity. And so take what’s being offered and think about succession planning based on people’s skill set, not necessarily what that old job description says, and see if you can make an impact.
Bernie Borges [00:23:33]:
I couldn’t agree more. That’s great advice. I also know that you’re not a fan of gatekeeping.
Michele A. Mathews [00:23:39]:
Yep.
Bernie Borges [00:23:40]:
Why?
Michele A. Mathews [00:23:41]:
Because I had a boss who was a drill sergeant in his prior career, and he would not let me do anything or teach me about things I needed to know because I was too young, I was a female or I was Skip’s kid. And I don’t understand that. He could have allowed us to learn things, but he kept it here. And I found out for him later why, and it was because he didn’t want me to replace him. Okay. In other careers, not in my dad’s business, I had the same thing. Wonderful HR people, wonderful operations people, they had the same thing. I can’t teach you because then you’re going to replace me.
Michele A. Mathews [00:24:21]:
Heck, the whole point of it is for you to train your replacement so you can either go on to the next or retire and go live a happy life. And I credit my mentors, the good mentors, including other HR consultants and other safety consultants who, especially as I started my business, they were like, hey, here’s some things to look out for. So. So I believe don’t gatekeep. And it’s something they’ll probably tell you all the time at HR Tampa, Michelle says, teach them how to fish. Don’t just hand them a fish. Give them the tools they need. They joke, that’s my outgoing motto.
Bernie Borges [00:24:59]:
That’s great. That’s great. And I think on a closing thought here, Michelle, you have said in a previous conversation, and I want to know if you’ve actually timed it, you said it takes less time to be kind or to be nice than it does to be mean. And I’m sure there’s a lot of context around that, so unpack that for us.
Michele A. Mathews [00:25:22]:
So I will again attribute it to the way we were raised. There are people who have all kinds of things going on in their heads, and they have what I call arty listenings. So they see me and they may think, oh, she has X, Y and Z. Or she’s this kind of person. And I’m guilty of it too, sometimes. But just being kind. So holding a door for someone, it takes. If you’re already working in the door, it takes nothing for you to just hold that door for someone or say please or say thank you.
Michele A. Mathews [00:25:55]:
You actually use more muscles in your face to frown or be with an rbf, and I got accused of that in the past than it does to smile. So your face actually starts to drop. The more stress you have, the more you’re hurting your body. And so thinking of what you want to say as a reaction to someone being less than kind to you takes more time and more hurt on your own body than just saying, all right, he’s obviously having a bad day, I’m gonna go about my day, or saying, hey, thank you, have a good day. It takes nothing to do that. But all the time, anytime you’re hurting yourself by talking negative or being mean to someone purposely, it takes extra time. You have to think about it. You actually get distracted from what you’re doing.
Michele A. Mathews [00:26:43]:
And again, it does hurt you internally and it affects your sleep at the end of the day.
Bernie Borges [00:26:48]:
Yeah. As I think about this whole conversation, Michelle, the way that I frame up your collective superpowers is that in addition to having the skills, the educational credentials, the real life work experience, you also have a tremendous amount of self awareness. And the self awareness is anchored in the life experiences that you had, including the traumatic incident, but also your upbringing, the family values that you had the privilege of experiencing in in your upbringing with your family. And that has given you a tremendous sense of self awareness. When you combine that with your experience, your education, your skills, that’s very powerful. So I just want to commend you for that and I want to thank you for joining me today to share that your story with us. Where can people go to connect with you and just get into your world?
Michele A. Mathews [00:27:46]:
Michelle, Bernie first, thank you so much for those kind words. I really appreciate it. I’m so happy that you’re seeing it flying through and doing the positive that I’m trying to do in the world. I would love for people to connect with me on LinkedIn. I will tell you, I am actually a female junior so when you go to look up Michelle with 1L, Matthews with 1T, you actually need to put a in between or else you’re going to end up with my mom. She’ll love to talk to you, but she won’t be able to do anything on the HR and safety side of the house. So Again, Michelle with 1L a Matthews with 1T on LinkedIn. Then you can also visit my company’s website and it’s Matthews with one THR consulting.com HR Tampa of course is a wonderful organization.
Michele A. Mathews [00:28:36]:
We welcome people both in HR and a kin, plus also other individuals to come to our chapter events like Bernie spoke at and just get wonderful tidbits. And so that is hrtampa.org and we would love to have you guys join us there. Reach out for anything going on. I’m also starting to get better at social media. I’m just going to be honest, I’m not fabulous at it, but I do have an Instagram for the business which is Matthewshr and Safety and then my personal one is shell actually with two Ls, M911 and Instagram. And so some of the charity work I do with different organizations I post a lot about there. So I’d love to have any of listeners reach out.
Bernie Borges [00:29:23]:
I will be sure to get all those links from you Michelle, and have them in the show notes. So the listener just needs to scroll down or scroll over and those links will be there. Thank you Michelle. I really appreciate you joining me today. It’s been a very insightful and inspiring conversation.
Michele A. Mathews [00:29:39]:
Thank you Bernie.
