Bernie Borges [00:00:02]:
What if the very leadership style that made you a success at work was actually destroying the thing that you value the most? 20 years ago, Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto was a self described command and control leader. And this approach almost cost him his marriage. Today, as the dean of business at St. Petersburg College, he he’s undergone a total 180 degree transformation into a humanistic leader who’s recognized as a resource for his team’s fulfillment. And in this episode, you’ll learn why success at home is the greatest predictor of your performance at work and how to transition from solely managing metrics to leading with both head and heart. And if you’ve ever felt like you had to choose between your career and your family, Emmanuel’s fork in the road story will show you a way to find fulfillment. Emmanuel, welcome to the Life Fulfilled podcast. Let’s get right to it.
Bernie Borges [00:01:01]:
When we had our prep call, the first thing that you said in this conversation, in this story was that you needed to begin by decluttering the noise. Let’s start there. What do you mean by that?
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:01:12]:
Of course, Bernie, and thank you for the invitation having me. So, you know, when I was an associate dean, that was my first meeting management opportunity. I was young, in my 20s, and, you know, ready to go and take on the world and show what I was capable of. So you had a lot of noise, basically. A lot of people. Actually my formal education is in business. So you have a lot of schooling that actually kind of told you what were the things that were appropriate as a manager, especially if, you know, you have a lot of metrics to go by and that’s how successful is measured. So between that society and, you know, also the cultural element, I was born and raised in Puerto Rico, so culture had a lot to do with it and how people actually worked and supervisors look through their different employees and institutions.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:02:04]:
Most of the role modeling that I had was about, you know, that command and control approach that you described. So it was kind of hard to filter through that and definitely gave me a little bit of a hard time because at heart, I wasn’t that person. I was more of a sociable kind of relationship building person that I could actually build an emotional connection with people. And that was my leadership style outside the office, you know, a youth group in community relations. But I guess there was an expectation of how I should be and who I should be as a leader. And we did have success. Don’t get it wrong, we achieved the numbers. We were one of the top competitors within our organization in terms of productivity.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:02:52]:
But it was at the expense of the team, I would say maybe morale and maybe some self esteem. So definitely took a toll on them more than me. And that’s something that definitely I would say that it was kind of hard to get rid of because everything else said no, you’re doing the right thing. But the actual, you know, signals the team was giving me was a complete opposite.
Bernie Borges [00:03:16]:
Okay, so it actually sounds like you were a bit performative. This leads me to the next topic that I wanted to discuss with you that you mentioned and that is you said that during this phase and you were still in Puerto Rico, if I remember correctly, from your storyline standpoint, you had sort of a that command and control approach that I mentioned in the introduction. So why don’t you elaborate on that because I think that can resonate with some people, whether it’s their own leadership style or maybe a leadership style that they’re exposed to in their either the workplace or even outside the workplace. What was that command and control phase like for you?
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:03:54]:
Well, that was a period where again, you know, being a young executive rising through the ranks, I was very goal oriented and you know, price came with it I think especially in academia. Whereas the space where I built my career being a young person carry a lot of weight because of course there’s a lot to that. You have to prove yourself and prove to others that you’re fit for the job. So having to work with managers that work twice retirement, I age sometimes and having to prove myself and actually super see some, some of the goals that they had and I was able to achieve that, you know, a fraction of the time, it kind of build a little reputation. So it kind of validated or gave the sense of validation that I was doing what’s. What’s correct. Right. Again, most of the leadership books at that time always kind of also said that hey, you know, command and control, it’s a good approach.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:04:55]:
We were transitioning with more humanistic components in, in term of leadership, more revisionary leadership, more inspirational leadership. But a lot of them really were not taking a hole in practice. Yes, you will see that at the C suite. But middle management, lower level management most likely were still, you know, let’s measure by, by the numbers on the metric.
Bernie Borges [00:05:18]:
So and about how, how many years ago was this?
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:05:21]:
I will say almost 20. Yeah. Because I’m about to turn 44 next week. And that, that was in, in my, you know, 27, 28 years of age. And you know, it was one of those things where again I was managing older people than I was so cultural thinking there was an eye also that actually I should have deferred to in some instances and provide the respect of wisdom. But again, you know, being a young ambitious person with a little bit of maybe self centered at the time, I didn’t value some of those things. And of course the team was an underperforming team so the perception wasn’t the best. So I guess people just gave me, you know, blind canvas to do so.
Bernie Borges [00:06:10]:
I think Emmanuel, the obvious next question that if I can read my listeners mind is what was the catalyst for change? When you and I spoke in preparation, you used the expression fork in the road. What was that fork in the road for you?
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:06:27]:
Well that was my wife. So as you mentioned in introduction, I was a go getter at my job and like anything else, you know, I didn’t take too much time to I guess have Brazilian ambitious goals with happy family and you know, happy wife, all those things. We had a young child at the time, a toddler and I kind of really didn’t pay too much attention to that with too much focus on, on the house and probably bring usual is well you know, as a man you’re supposed to provide and you know, as long as you’re providing you’re doing your part and you know, if, if you need to sacrifice a little bit of family time then so be it because you know you’re fulfilling your role as, as a male. And that wasn’t necessarily correct. So it definitely created some friction in the relationship. You know those middle years of my daughter I kind of missed. Now that I have a younger child, I have a son, I was able to be there during this year so I can see all the stuff that I miss. And you know, she just said it very plainly.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:07:32]:
You know, you have to decide what’s more important, is it a family or the job. And I make a decision and that’s what I did. So I chose the family. I tried to work arrangements with the employer just to be able to have more of a balance between home and work. And that didn’t work. So it actually pushed me out of my comfort zone to pursue other opportunities that I wanted to do. And I will say that thanks to that fork in the road actually I grew one as a professional and as a leader. But two, it actually brought even better opportunities both, you know, professionally, personally, financially.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:08:13]:
So that’s, that’s when in this stage, you know, family will always, I will go with family always.
Bernie Borges [00:08:19]:
Okay, so I know that part of your story then as, as it’s unfolding as you’re sharing this, this journey that you went through did include a transition to. To the U.S. mainland, from Puerto Rico to the U.S. mainland. And I know that that had some impact on you, both from a career standpoint, but also from a cultural standpoint. So why don’t you speak to that? Because you were in a leadership role, if I understand correctly. So talk to that transition from Puerto Rico to the US Mainland and that cultural transition that you experienced.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:08:54]:
That definitely. So in that regard. Well, you know, Puerto Rico, it’s main language is Spanish. We learn English since we’re in elementary school. But culturally speaking, you know, since we were a Spanish territory for so many years, we kept that as part of our culture. So moving here, you know, we are US Citizens, we also have a lot of the US Influence. So it’s kind of a little bit of a hybrid. But definitely we are not locals, and we’re not necessarily raised in the same way or fashion.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:09:26]:
So when we move here, having to understand those particular regional characteristics, the different rituals and traditions that we didn’t grow up with, I had to kind of learn those. And then also when I was teaching, because I came for a faculty position, I had to embed that in my teaching style as a way also to respect the heritage and the different geographic traditions that we had where I moved to. And I think that was one of the first steps towards also transitioning and improving my leadership style. Because being someone that, as they called where I moved, they said I was a transplant. So anyone that wasn’t born and raised in the community basically was a transplant. And of course, it was a big military community, so they had tons of transplants. But me definitely being someone that, you know, looked different, sound different, it was a little bit more obvious and having to earn a little bit of that respect from the community and also their love, because, you know, it was a community that really welcomed me. And like anything else, you know, while we were going through that process, there was a little bit of hesitation as, who’s this person coming up here and where is Puerto Rico on the map? You know, is that too bad? No, we are a little bit.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:10:45]:
But it was a opportunity for me to really experience what we saw a lot of the time on TV and validate some things and discourage or discard others. But most important, to understand the cultural elements of which region do we belong to? How can you become part of that community, what’s important to a community, and what modifications you have to do to honor and respect that community.
Bernie Borges [00:11:12]:
Now, today, you are the dean of Business at St. Petersburg College, which is in the Tampa Bay area in Florida. And you use an expression that I use, and neither one of us are the original author of this expression, and that is a head and heart leader. It’s certainly one that I’ve embraced in the context of my fulfillment centric leadership work that I do. And you’ve embraced it just in terms of your approach to leadership. So maybe you can speak to, you know, given the story, the journey that you’ve just shared with us, that whole backstory that really led you to your head and heart leadership approach today wanted to unpack, you know, what that really means for you in your current role.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:11:55]:
So it’s something that, again, it goes back to family. You know, like my wife and my kids said it just now, you know, my. My daughter’s almost going to college now, so we have a great relationship. And she says, well, that, you know, we do things because we want or we appreciate you or we know we need to do it, but it’s not because, you know, you said it. So in that regard, kind of makes you reflect that with your team or your employees. In a way, it’s kind of the same. Yes, people need to work, yes, people need an income. But at the end of the day, it’s a relationship.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:12:29]:
And like any relationship, it’s a choice that, you know, we both decide to be here, we both decide to come and do the best and contribute the best, and we will have our difference differences, but we’re still making a choice to make this work. And that’s how I approach my leadership style. Right? Definitely. I use the metrics. Those are not gonna go away. That’s what, when you’re driving, you know, give you all the hints or the GPS to let you know if you’re headed the right direction. But the way you pull on the wheel and, you know, and guide the car and that everything to. To march on that direction, it’s.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:13:05]:
It’s different, right? And when work with my team, I really look at the human first and I try to understand, you know, what is it that they’re going through, right? Because I have multiple generations in my team. So some of them are caregivers, some of them had, you know, spouses pass away, children pass away. And no one kind of teaches you that in business school, or at least not as much as I should. Especially when you’re on a younger generation managing an older generation and being open to having that, I guess, holistic view of your team and your employees as an actual human being that you Know really has other needs beyond the job. It’s critical and for me, understanding that I need to address those things first, even though I’m not a social worker. And you know, again, this is a job we’re not supposed to be begging people, but is not about begging. Right. It’s about, you know, if I take care of you, you will take care of me.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:14:08]:
And by taking care of me means, you know, you will do the best to your ability to ensure that we achieve those metrics. And by default, you know, the institution or the organization will be better off.
Bernie Borges [00:14:19]:
You said something that I want to come back to it. I just want to add my commentary to it and certainly welcome your response to it. But you’re right, it is not the job of a leader to, to work through their employees, personal issues, challenges, that sort of thing, but certainly from a head and heart standpoint in what I call fulfillment centric leadership, just acknowledging the human side and having some conversation, maybe pointing them to some resources that might be helpful to them and then just taking that approach, just as you said, working with them as humans first, you know, I call that, you know, see the human before the role. Right. And so it sounds to me like you’re absolutely doing that. And maybe you can kind of elaborate in that a little bit and, and how your team engages with you as a result of your head and heart leadership approach.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:15:14]:
Definitely. So let me give you an example. For example, in my, in my earlier career attempt as a, and associate dean, you know, I will have employees that will tell me, hey, Manuel, I have a doctor’s appointment, you know, just an hour, but they didn’t have enough sleep time. You know, they will try to offer me, you know, can go to the appointment and then maybe I can make up the hour either today or tomorrow. And at the time that will be a big no. You know, if you need to go, go, or you should have been, you should have planned because at that time those particular employees were hourly. And again, you know, FaceTime on the, in the office was important. It was crucial and I need you to be there.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:15:57]:
So there was no exception and there were no leeway or flexibility. Now, even though sometimes for certain projects, you know, there’s an expectation that people should be there and if they’re an hourly employee, now I just find a way to, hey, you know, if, if you need to be out for health reasons, we will work it out and I need to actually help you on some of those things or find a resource to make up that time while you’re out that’s fine. Because when you come back and you, you know, make up your time now, I’m going to be over whatever metric we were trying to use. So I tried to see on the positive on how do we gain some of those areas. And again, it goes back to it’s a commitment, right? You, you gave me a work that you’re going to perform at this level and you’re going to commit to do certain things and I will trust that you do that. So in order to build trust, you have to give trust, really. And I think that’s what we have done the past three and a half years that I’ve been in the position. And thanks to that, today we have one of the highest success rates in every single metric that we use in our organization.
Bernie Borges [00:17:08]:
That’s great. Anytime I’m having a conversation with someone about the head and heart leadership approach, which again, I’m not the original author of that and neither are you, but when I have conversation about it, it’s interesting how people sort of hone in on the heart part, which is great, but they think that you’re compromising the head part, which you’ve used the word metric many times in this conversation. That’s the head part, right? You are managing to metrics, that’s the head part. But you’re also balancing it with the human and that’s the heart part. And I love that. It’s a great example. So a really appreciate the fact that you’re sharing your story where I want to go next. You know, Emmanuel, that my whole approach to head and heart leadership through fulfillment centric leadership is based on the five life pillars, right? Health, fitness, career, relationships and legacy.
Bernie Borges [00:17:59]:
And you’ve done some interesting sort of integration. You’ve got career and relationships very intertwined. Why don’t you just speak to that briefly? How are you intertwining or integrating career and relationships?
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:18:15]:
Definitely. So that’s one of those things where I was lacking, I would say in as part of my development professionally and personally. And you know, I didn’t have any time for myself, you know, I wouldn’t do exercise, I wouldn’t do anything related to fitness. And that was an area that I kind of found out that outside work and of course my family, I didn’t have any relationships. So once I started to commit to do more like sports, I don’t own too much work from that, but sports I can do, I was able to actually build a social network that it actually helped me release a lot of the stress and some of the other Things that kept worrying me kind of give a break to my family too. So that way they will have a break from me. Some Shazam. But I wasn’t actually connecting the dots that having that me time was actually allowing me to find ways to connect with other people.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:19:14]:
And believe it or not, you know, there’s a lot of people that do kind of the same sports that are professionals. As it happens that when you are trying to build a relationship with someone in your actual role, you can actually start to pick up a better common point for bonding. In my case, you know, I play pickleball and I just learned recently, a couple of months ago, but I’ve been, you know, trying to improve so I can actually go to multiple areas and play with different levels. But when I. I’m in my job and actually doing community relationship, as it happens, a lot of people my age and older, which usually tend to be in executive positions, are doing the same. So it’s one of those things where. Well, you know, if you find those common points where you are actually enjoying the conversation will come natural by default, you know, a little bit more of trust or people will feel a little more comfortable sharing some personal items that eventually will help creating that closeness.
Bernie Borges [00:20:14]:
Yeah, especially when you engage in real conversation around that and you remember that. So if they say they share a pet’s name or family member’s name, and then three weeks later or whatever, somewhere in the future, you ask, hey, how’s. And then you mentioned the family member’s name or the pet’s name, that. And when you’re doing it authentically, as in you really care, you people know that. And that relationship really strengthens the bond between you as their boss and their role. And that has an impact on their performance. So you’ve already touched on the integration of the career and relationship pillar. You also have touched on the integration of health and fitness into your overall journey.
Bernie Borges [00:20:59]:
The last pillar that I want you to comment on is the legacy pillar. How are you redefining, so to speak, your legacy?
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:21:09]:
Well, that’s very interesting because we did have at the office that conversation, I would say maybe four or five months ago. We’re talking about transitioning and kind of like exit planning, you know, not that I was thinking of living my current role, but I was telling the team that something that I really wanted to build was a system in which whatever changes we do are somewhat permanent. So it doesn’t matter who comes into the chair, that will stay there. And the only way we could do that is by having them actually Take ownership of what changes they want to do that, what changes they want to instay and keep on running. And that actually sparked some good conversation because then we were talking about how do we do things that are not necessarily removed or prevented from us to do from higher leadership because right. Leadership changes, then, you know, maybe the vision changes a little bit and that will trickle down. So you help us understand really what matters to the team and how do those things that do matter will still carry on forward with what we started. And in terms of that vision, and I think from a legacy perspective, that’s what I’ve been focusing on.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:22:23]:
You know, something that I know I’m not going to be here forever. Actually, administrators, on average, their tenure, it’s an average of three years for deans and college presidents are going about three to five. So the industry has moved in higher ed that you have your deans and your college presidents with a shorter terms as part of their tenure in that role. So that means that, you know, faculty actually tends to be a tenure between 15 to 20 years. So imagine that a faculty member most likely will be there and will see at least three deans in their tenure, if not more.
Bernie Borges [00:23:04]:
Right.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:23:05]:
So, you know, changing all those years and restarting something every time is just not sustainable. So that was kind of my focus and still is. So we’re working on that right now. But I can see now kind of infusing a little bit of fire in their eyes and wanted to really do things because they know that, hey, whatever we do, it’s gonna stay and we’re gonna find a way that whoever comes in, it’s gonna be. And I have a little bit of a hard time taking it away because usually a lot of that is attached to funding. So if we find, you know, alternative funding sources, the funding keeps coming, we will be able to keep on doing it well.
Bernie Borges [00:23:46]:
Emmanuel, your journey from command and control, leadership style to someone that today is leading with head and heart is a powerful reminder that success, whether in career or outside of career, it’s not a trade off, it’s really an integration. You’ve really shown us that the real metrics of leadership aren’t just the metrics that are measured in performance reviews or promotions or just other KPIs that you’re responsible for reporting on, but also in the quality of relationships and the clarity of how you show up for your people every day and then the impact that you’re having, the legacy that you’re leaving every day, not just in the future, but even today. And I just want to say to my listener that if you have ever felt like your ambition or was at odds with your home life or that the noise of achievement was maybe drowning out what really matters to you, well, I think Emmanuel’s story that you’re hearing today is really an invitation for you to declutter the noise, to lead with your whole self. And of course, I would be remiss if I didn’t remind you, since I am the host of the Life Fulfilled podcast, to remind you that fulfillment is not found in the corner office or whatever status a career role might be. It’s really built at the intersection of the five life pillars that we discuss here today. Health, fitness, career, relationships, and legacy. And Emmanuel, I want to thank you profusely for coming on the podcast, sharing your story with us. It’s really been inspiring.
Bernie Borges [00:25:32]:
And where can my listener connect with you? If they want to just connect with you and just kind of get into your world, of course.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:25:40]:
Well, they can connect with me on LinkedIn. So if they actually search my name, Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto, you will see me there. If not, you can look me up in St. Petersburg College. So if you go to Google and just type SPC Emmanuel Hernandez, that will be your first result.
Bernie Borges [00:25:58]:
Fantastic. Well, Emmanuel, my listener knows that all that will be linked up in the show notes for this episode. So again, thank you so much for joining me today.
Emmanuel Hernandez Agosto [00:26:08]:
Thanks to you. Have a great day.
